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Five Answers on Monsanto’s Haiti Seed Donation

Since announcing Monsanto’s $4 million seed donation to Haitian farmers on May 13, there have been some questions and some inaccuracies regarding details of the gift. We covered some of the answers in this initial blog post, which primarily addressed how the donation came about and noted the seeds were hybrids not biotech (GMO).

  • Monsanto contacted the Haitian Ministry of Agriculture and offered specific non-GMO seed varieties and quantities suited for Haiti’s growing conditions. The Ministry reviewed the offer and asked some questions, including whether we intended to include GMO seed because Haiti does not have the legal framework in place to approve or use biotech seeds today. We clarified that Monsanto’s offer was only for conventionally bred hybrids. The Ministry let us know what crop seeds would be acceptable to their farmers. In a letter to Monsanto, the Ministry said:

“Thank you for Monsanto’s generous offer to donate Vegetable seeds and Hybrid maize seeds to benefit the Haitian farmers. The vegetable seeds have been tested in Haiti previously and are well accepted by the farmers. They will definitely contribute to an increase in vegetable production in Haiti.”

  • Monsanto informed the Haitian Ministry of Agriculture that certain seeds would have a fungicidal treatment on them. Fungicidal seed treatments are often applied to seeds prior to planting to protect them from fungal diseases that arise in the soil and hamper the plant’s ability to germinate and grow. The treatments also provide protection against diseases the seed might pick up in transfer between countries. Seed treatments are commonly used in agriculture worldwide.

Monsanto notified the Ministry that the donated seeds would have fungicide treatments. The Ministry continued to be supportive, offering the following:

“Let me also thank you for the information about the seed treatments for the Monsanto Hybrids. The products listed are used everyday in Haitian agriculture and should pose no problem.”

  • Some of the vegetable seed products Monsanto donated were already grown in Haiti. That, coupled with our consultation with the Ministry of Agriculture, gave us confidence that farmers would welcome and benefit from the donation.
  • There are no contractual obligations between Haitian farmers and Monsanto since this is a donation. In fact, there are no business transactions at all between Monsanto and Haitian farmers in regards to these seeds. Monsanto is earning no revenue from this donation.

  • Monsanto noted that hybrids are not commonly grown in Haiti today. We have received questions about how much this hybrid seed donation will change current farming practices. Will farmers need additional inputs? What additional education/resources are needed for this to be successful?

These are all good questions, and ones that we considered prior to making the donation. This is partly why the donation took so long to make – we wanted to ensure that farmers would have the necessary tools and support since our involvement ends once the seed hits the ground in Haiti. We felt it would be irresponsible and ineffective to simply send the seed without a plan.

We sought on-the-ground support in Haiti and again consulted with the Haitian Ministry. The USAID-funded WINNER project and The Earth Institute will handle distribution and will support farmers with recommendations and resources. That support includes helping farmers decide whether to use additional inputs (including fertilizer and herbicides) and deciding how to handle next year’s planting season.

For some farmers, those may be new techniques, and for others it may not. A seed is a seed. And technically, it can be planted without any additional inputs. Fertilizer and herbicides increase the output of the crop. But again, the decision on whether to use those will be left to the individual farmer.

It’s disheartening to see people encouraging Haitian farmers to “burn Monsanto seeds,” especially when the ones hurt by that action will be Haitian farmers and the Haitian people—not those of us watching on the sidelines. Fortunately, we have not received reports that that is actually occurring.

35 Responses to "Five Answers on Monsanto’s Haiti Seed Donation"

  1. Why aren’t you honest about the real issue here. I have seen it first hand in Kenya where they bought into the hybrid seed lie. Soon farmers will not be able to feed their children because they cannot afford to buy the seeds for each planting nor the carcinogenic fertilizers needed for hybrids. Why not distribute open pollenating seeds if you truly are interested in helping or is the real motive to take advantage of these poor people who have suffered enough? When the USAID supports run out, people will starve and you will have robbed them of whatever hope they had for self sufficiency and a brighter future. May God have mercy on your soul for your part in this. I would suggest that whoever reads this, consider using your talents for a worthy organization and not spew more propaganda from this company who places profits before people. Do your homework and you will find that I am 100% correct.

    Reply
    • Dan – I’m sorry, but from your note I can’t decipher what you feel is the “real issue.” The use of hybrids?

      I guess my response is that the other parts of the world have been using hybrids for years with great success. Why should we deny African farmers access to quality seeds that the rest of the world uses?

      Open pollinated seeds would be a great option if they produced as much crop as a hybrid seed. Here is a great visual on a hybrid ear of corn versus open-pollinated. The cob in the middle is from the hybrid: http://plantandsoil.unl.edu/croptechnology2005/UserFiles/Image/siteImages/B73Mo17,hybridEarsLG.gif

      I pulled the photo from the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, which has a very good explanation of corn breeding over the last two centuries: http://plantandsoil.unl.edu/croptechnology2005/pagesincludes/printModule.jsp?informationModuleId=1075412493

      I appreciate recognition of my talent and will take your note under advisement. However, I am going to do my homework and cannot take you at face value that you are “100% correct.”

      Reply
      • I find it ridiculous that you claim that an open pollenating seed does not produce more food. How can this be true? If someone needs to buy a new seed batch yearly, it costs them more money and they get less bang for their buck.

        Hybrids are an art that has been perfected by farmers for thousands of years by merging the best crops they have. The issue is that Monsanto uses chemicals and genes from other creatures and then puts them into a laboratory with god knows what else. You cannot play creator and try to speed up time without consequences.

        Reply
      • I love your sincerity and judo moves Mica. People get so personal about these things. I’m stupified that those who feel strongest about these issues are often the worst-informed, culling hype from various poor sources. It’s science.

        Reply
    • I find it hard to reconcile your claim that Monsanto is a “company who places profits before people” when you’re commenting in an article about them making a charitable donation worth $4 million with no strings attached. What about the money that Monsanto and its employees donated to the Red Cross for Haiti – was that part of some evil scheme as well?

      I think the comments from the Ministry of Agriculture make it abundantly clear that they have no problem with the hybrid seeds or the treatments that can be used with them – neither of which any Haitian farmer is under obligation to use. If a farmer and his family have access to open pollenating varieties, then by all means plant them. If, on the other hand, they lost everything in the disaster and have nothing to plant at all then what would you suggest they do? It doesn’t sound like you want them to starve or that you want them to become perpetually dependent on foreign aid. I say that they plant the hybrid seeds, make a profit from the harvest and earn some money to feed their families and reinvest in the years to come however they choose.

      Reply
  2. Thiram is the chemical in these Hybrid seeds. Below is a thorough study published by Cornell University detailing just how deadly and debilitating this chemical is.

    Does this company and its scientists (there’s nothing scientific about this btw) have no shame at all? Haven’t the people of Haiti suffered enough already without this shameless attempt to create a circular pattern of addiction and reliance on dangerous products?

    Fortunately, there are plenty of us around ready to expose this company for the criminal it is. I’m glad the farmers will be burning the seed and they have the peoples full support.

    If the corrupt and illegitimate government of Haiti wants to become a slave to Monsanto, then let them. The people know the truth and they will not go along with it.

    http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/thiram-ext.html

    Reply
    • David – The vegetable seeds were indeed treated with Thiram, a Bayer Crop Science product. Thiram has been registered for use in the U.S. for more than 60 years and is used to treat approximately 1.3 billion pounds of seed annually. (Source: U.S. EPA) Here is the Thiram product page on Bayer’s site: http://www.bayercropscienceus.com/products_and_seeds/seed_treatments/thiram.html

      The Cornell study you reference is from 1993 and identifies Thiram as a member of the EBDC class of chemicals. This is incorrect. The current classification is (dimethyl dithiocarbamate) DMDC. Please see this source that is more current than then Cornell study you reference. Oregon State University, 1996. http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/thiram.htm

      I respectfully disagree with your opinion that it is a good thing to have farmers burning free seed that could provide food for many Haitians this fall.

      Reply
  3. I’m going to address the above comment myself and I’m NOT an Monsanto employee nor have I ever been one, I have met some Monsanto employees however. I certainly have sympathy for the vitriol they have to deal with on a daily basis. I’m looking at these boards because I just had a LENGHTY back and forth with friends of a friend on a facebook link about the Monsanto seed donation where the original comment was “suck it Monsanto”.

    After poking around on here the original post and comments about the seed donation and addressing the allegations that are now all over the internet I found Monsanto’s response on this issue to be reasonable and accurate.

    Dan these seeds are fertile hybrids…if you go to the comment section on the original post about the Haiti seed donation there are very good diagrams and links to find out about hybrids. When you cross two pure bred strains of something of the same species you can get a hybrid that incorporates the beneficial traits of both in the hybrid, commonly called an F1 generation. The hybrid is fertile but if you breed it further it doesn’t pass its traits down in the same ratios that the pure bred parents did. Think back to high school Mendelian genetics or if you’ve forgotten that, google it for a refresher.

    Note: This is NOT the same scenario of crossing two members of a different species that typically result in an infertile offspring as is the case with say a donkey and a horse to get a mule. Though there are some exceptions to the case of infertility in mules as you can cross them back to the species of the original parents and sometimes get viable offspring but it’s not a purebred mule. But I digress, hopefully you get the point of the difference in hybrids between crossing two purebreds of a same species with crossing members of different species.

    There’s nothing insidious about a hybrid plant, people can still plant whatever they want after this years growing cycle, they can even save the seed from the hybirds but it won’t perform the same as the F1 hybrid did because of the aforementioned Mendelian genetic ratio example.

    What I find really upsetting in the above comment by Dan is its obvious this person has no interest in hearing both sides, he’s here to just bash and nothing that Monsanto says will ever been anything but “propaganda” to this individual. My main criticism of Monsanto as a company has been that historically they didn’t make educational efforts like this blog. Am glad to see that changing. The misinformation that is now accepted fact around rBST is apalling and Monsanto didn’t do much initially to educate people about it or engage environmentalists who should have been overwhelmingly on the side of such products. I’ve found that when people have exposure to the whys of things they do react favorably but you can’t let detractors be the ONLY voice that people hear. Though I do recognize the fact that no matter what a Monsanto employee says, those who are fundamentally opposed to big-ag or GMO’s in general are always going to just shrug it off as “propaganda”, those who are coming here to objectively listen however will learn something.

    “I would suggest that whoever reads this, consider using your talents for a worthy organization and not spew more propaganda from this company places profits before people”

    Really? I would suggest that for those who are so passionately critical of Monsanto and other biotechs why don’t you instead join such companies and make your mark on steering their course? If you really believe these companies are so harmful then why don’t you become a part of their culture and change who they are? What I wonder is that if you actually did get in on the inside…would you still have the same perceptions that you have now. That would be an interesting thing to discover.

    Reply
  4. Everything was going great until I read the following sentence, “A seed is a seed.” Do you have an academic reference to back up that statement, too? I sincerely hope the folks at Monsanto do not believe that gross generalization, otherwise why would you be in the seed business? That’s like Toyota saying a car is just a car. Oh wait…

    Reply
      • I think with the “seed is a seed” statement is VERY important and something I didn’t see properly dealt with. The trouble with hybrid seeds or patented GMO seeds is that a farmer cannot save seed and replant the next year. The plants that grow from hybrid seeds do not produce seeds with identical traits. A kernel of corn collected from an F1 hybrid could produce a very different looking corn plant. The legal issues surrounding patented seeds is a whole other issue. However, these are both important because farmers in Haiti do not have the resources to buy hybrid or GMO seeds and likely they won’t next year. Unless Monsanto can make donations of hybrid seeds every year to Haitian farmers they should only donate open pollinated crops so that farmers can save there seed. Unfortunately Monsanto relies on a system of agriculture in which farmer purchase the majority of inputs they need every year instead of producing them on site. Alternatively, Haiti needs a strong foundation of healthy and independent farmers that can sustain their own production, without the uncertain scaffolding of giant agro-companies that will only incorporate them into a system in which they do not currently belong.

        Reply
  5. A few follow up questions: Are the hybrid seeds patented? Can farmers save the seeds or will they be required to purchase new seeds from Monsanto if they want to continue using this hybrid? Was any thought given to the impact on local seed stock from cross pollination? Most chemical fertilizers and herbicides are expensive and can be dangerous. How will Haitians afford them? Will the seeds perform if Haitians choose not to use new fertilizers and herbicides and to continue farming the way they always have?

    Reply
    • Let me clarify for a more effective discussion: I understand that seeds of the 2nd filial generation will not all contain the same traits as the hybrid. However, should Haitian farmers choose to keep their seeds and plant the lower yield 2F seeds would it be legal for them to do so?

      Reply
  6. Angel – We tried to make this clear in the two posts on this topic. It is a donation. That means farmers have no obligation to Monsanto. Yes, they can save the seeds. No, we would not sue them.

    Cross pollination can be controlled through production practices, as it is every year.

    Our two partners, WINNER and The Earth Institute, will consult with farmers on whether additional inputs such as fertilizer and pesticides are needed, and if so, how to obtain them.

    Reply
  7. I am an employee at Monsanto’s Bogota office in Colombia and I want to point out that the corn hybrids sent to Haiti have been tested in the region with no fertilizer use and the yield obtained with them has been higher than the average yield Haitian farmers currently obtain using their open pollinated varieties.

    On the other hand, I have been several times in Haiti working in agriculture and although farmers there have very limited resources in general, the use of fertilizers and pesticides is quite normal among them. Many times Hatian farmers don’t have the resources to purchase those inputs, but they know how to use them and they do use them whenever they have access to them.

    Reply
    • Manuel – that’s interesting to know – any discussion I’ve had around Haitian Ag has generally been pretty uninformed – I have utterly no knowledge (and had a hard time finding anything concrete) and the general assumption that you run into is that Haitian Ag is basically one step away from agriculture as it started out 10,000 years ago – I think a lot gets assumed when there is a vacuum of knowledge – in much the same way that a lot has been assumed about the Monsanto donation of seed based simply on the fact that it’s Monsanto, donating seed (which in the minds of many apparently has to be a bad thing, somehow)

      Reply
      • The assumption that almost everyone has when they see the state of poverty in Haiti is that agriculture in the country is in the pre-historic ages. However, keep in mind that Haiti has a long tradition in agriculture since colonial times and not so long ago (in the 70’s) the country was an important exporter of sugar, coffee, tobacco, and mangoes, just like other countries in the Caribbean. The use of agricultural inputs in those crops and in rice (the most important local crop) has been very common with most of them coming across the border from the Dominican Republic. Political problems in the last 25 years or so have practically destroyed the country’s agriculture sector and made the country dependent on foreign aid; but the farmers are still there trying to survive and willing to make their land productive again.

        Reply
  8. Thinking on Manuel’s point a little an interesting resource for the public to have would be some sort of reality based summary of how agriculture currently works, and how it has historically worked, in many of the developing nations that often enter the debate – I still struggle to find any reliable resource which details Haitian Ag output, and Ag inputs recently nevermind over the past 4-5 decades – my assumption is that the same state of affairs exists for many developing nations – and the same concerns are likely to come up again and again based on assumptions about the area in question which may not be based on anything other than some utopian imagination of what agriculture is before “big ag” gets its hands involved.

    Reply
  9. I noticed that Monsanto made a smiliar donation to Malawi a few years ago? What were the results of that donation? I can’t seem to find any online documentation that discusses the Malawi case!

    Reply
  10. So Monsanto is not donating GMO seeds. It doesn’t change this company’s practices in subjugating farmers to their imperialist practices. Monsanto’s primary concern isn’t about feeding people, it’s about making money and lining the pockets of already wealthy people. If the Haitians decide to burn Monsanto seeds, I admire them for standing up and making that choice. And as a bonus…it’s a joy to see Monsanto’s stock prices down, down, down…

    Reply
  11. Mica,
    You wrote above
    “Open pollinated seeds would be a great option if they produced as much crop as a hybrid seed. Here is a great visual on a hybrid ear of corn versus open-pollinated. The cob in the middle is from the hybrid: http://plantandsoil.unl.edu/croptechnology2005/UserFiles/Image/siteImages/B73Mo17,hybridEarsLG.gif

    But compare your champion hybrid to this open pollinated heritage corn.
    http://www.flag-sa.org/blog/2009/12/helena-holds-up-one-of-our-open.html

    Everyone knows that each subsequent generation of hybrid seeds degenerates. Open pollinated “pure bred” corn seeds which do not degenerate are yielding 15 tons per hectare in Mexico. Commercial seed breeders deliberately refrain from continuing the breeding process and stop at the “hybrid” phase specifically so that they can resell new seeds each year.
    The handing out hybrids to resource poor farmers and then claiming that they have increased their yields seven fold is unethical. This was done in Malawi. The farmers there are now forced to buy seeds each year because they have lost their ‘area specific pen pollinated heritage seeds’ which consistently out performed commercial hybrids on dryland during seasons of drought. (Yet the very drought resistance of these heritage “african” seeds is stolen from Africa and bred into your patented hybrid seeds.)
    These farmers were not informed of the consequences of hybrids and were therefore not able to make the important decision you describe above. Just as most educated farmers failed to plant refuges which has resulted in the corn stem borer resistance to GM (Bt) corn in irrigated fields throughout Southern Africa.

    Reply
    • Hi Trevor,

      Mica is out of the office today so I thought I would get back with you. I touched base with some of our colleagues in Africa who worked very closely with the Malawi seed donation.

      Your story about our Malawi donation is untrue. The Malawi success story of transforming the country from a food deficit to food surplus situation is driven by hybrid seed with the government and development organizations subsidizing these inputs in a way that does not disrupt the private sector operations.

      In an email from my colleague, Enock writes:

      “Coincidentally, the UN Secretary General, and the Director General of FAO were in Malawi two weeks ago, to collect facts on the ground on how this’ success formula’ can be replicated in the rest of the Africa and other developing nations struggling with hunger and food insecurity.

      In the past 3 seasons, when Malawi registered grain surpluses of 500,000 to 800,000 tons, the hybrid proportion to the Open Pollinated varieties distributed under the voucher (coupon) program has been 85% to 15% respectively – a clear indication that farmers deliberately choose hybrids because of the yield benefits they bring.

      The reports that hybrids are detrimental in Malawi are obviously unfortunate and the facts and evidence is bare, right in Malawi. Monsanto started with the seed donation that benefited 144,000 families in 2006 and continued as a key player providing quality hybrid seeds from 2007 to date. Our contribution towards attainment of food self-sufficiency in Malawi is undisputed and more importantly, is acknowledged by the Government of Malawi in general and by the very beneficiaries, the Malawi farmers in particular.”

      You can find more information on the Malawi seed donation on our website. Malawi Seed Donation

      Thanks for reading, and looking through this information.

      Reply
  12. Its great you have a back and forth here. My question is what are the effects of the chemicals these seeds are sprayed with , once they reach water supplies , rivers or lakes . Can these chemicals be harmful to human health or the environment if found to contaminate water supplies.

    You also say “Our two partners, WINNER and The Earth Institute, will consult with farmers on whether additional inputs such as fertilizer and pesticides are needed, and if so, how to obtain them.”

    With the amount of research and experience you have will you not know in advance whether fertilizer is needed, if so , can it be any fertilizer or pesticide or one specifically patented to Monsanto ?

    Thanks in advance

    Reply
  13. Dear Monsanto PR Lady,

    Let us make no mistake about the purpose of this blog or the seed shipment to Haiti. As has been said a million times over by a million people; “Any publicity is good publicity.” There is no doubt that this donation is nothing more than a PR stunt, one which the company you work for hopes will to some extent soften the blow of your East India Trading Company type treatment of average farmers.

    Just the same as the tired, though sometimes true argument about hybrids being more productive. At times this can be the case and at times it is untrue. A proven example is the inability of any of your corn lines to grow in the high dessert of Montana where Dave Christiansans Painted Mountain continues to grow (selected from Mandan landraces).

    I also know the little tricks you seed selling PR people love to use to sell seed, that yield trick works on folks who don’t know any better, just like donating a couple “million” dollars worth of seed to a third world country. Totally looks awesome and “humanitarian” on paper, but face it, it’s a drop in the bucket to you guys, just like those petty lawsuits you love to bring against the peasant farmers in countries around the world.

    Of course, this doesn’t mean that Monsanto couldn’t do some good if it wanted. For example, I’m willing to bet that the lines of corn you sent to Haiti were made up of very little in the way of Southern Dent lines and instead included tropical highland and lowland maize genetics, genetics which you lab coat wearing gene jokeys picked up quite simply by way of the looting of tropical locales (such as haiti) and their natural and folk/culture resources, the same resources which when your not trying to pull off a major PR stunt you are busy trying to resale back to the people who originally owned them (while actively searching out those farmers who stole “your” genetics). What a sad little joke.

    OF course if Monsanto wanted to really do some good they could take a look back over the years, back to those early corn hybridization experiments carried out on the East Coast and realize that even those great corn “Drs.” said themselves that hybridization and synthetic solutions were only temporary fixes for permanent problems and that the real improvements which would benefit mankind in crop seed production and yeild increase would come instead from genetic pool/population breeding and diversity, but of course then those farmers who work their butts off to break even due to the high prices of your inputs and seed would have the option of not purchasing that seed every year if they so wished.

    Stunning isn’t it? Indeed I know, amazing that you guys could come along half way through the 20’th century and turn a 10,000 year old way of life and culture into a commodity, that you can take things away from the people who “owned” them, resale them to them, and then sue them for following the practices which ensured the seed was squirreled away to a safe place where it was later “pirated” by you. Congratulations on hijaking the single most important step towards civilization in the known world; agriculture.

    If the farmers choose to burn your seed, I applaud, at least they still have their pride.

    If the French and Germans choose to destroy your test plots, I congratulate them.

    Until the day you do something for the LEGITIMATE betterment of mankind I have nothing I am willing to pat you on the back for and say “good job”.

    Reply
    • “Let us make no mistake about the purpose of this blog or the seed shipment to Haiti. As has been said a million times over by a million people; “Any publicity is good publicity.” There is no doubt that this donation is nothing more than a PR stunt, one which the company you work for hopes will to some extent soften the blow of your East India Trading Company type treatment of average farmers.”

      So your solution is what? For Monsanto to do absolutely nothing, ever, which may do good for people, because it’s cynical? Even if the donation were a PR stunt it still doesnt make sense to call it nothing but a PR stunt – farmers in haiti get exactly the same benefit from seeds donated purely out of the goodness of our hearts, as they do from seeds donated out of cynical corporate need for good PR.

      “Just the same as the tired, though sometimes true argument about hybrids being more productive. At times this can be the case and at times it is untrue. A proven example is the inability of any of your corn lines to grow in the high dessert of Montana where Dave Christiansans Painted Mountain continues to grow”

      In general hybrids are more productive. Not always. Should people not use hybrids because in a tiny handful of circumstances they don’t outperform some locally adapted variety (particularly when they haven’t been selected to operate in those conditions)?

      ” also know the little tricks you seed selling PR people love to use to sell seed, that yield trick works on folks who don’t know any better”

      Who doesnt know any better exactly? Farmers? That’s a pretty insulting statement to farmers – if any seed company promises better yield with a given variety and it doesn’t work farmers will know in a season or two of small plot testing and you won’t sell any seed.

      “Of course, this doesn’t mean that Monsanto couldn’t do some good if it wanted. For example, I’m willing to bet that the lines of corn you sent to Haiti were made up of very little in the way of Southern Dent lines and instead included tropical highland and lowland maize genetics, genetics which you lab coat wearing gene jokeys picked up quite simply by way of the looting of tropical locales (such as haiti) and their natural and folk/culture resources, the same resources which when your not trying to pull off a major PR stunt you are busy trying to resale back to the people who originally owned them (while actively searching out those farmers who stole “your” genetics). What a sad little joke.”

      What a bizarrely convoluted way of looking at how plant breeding works. Even if genetics were utilized from tropical maize it’s not simply a case of taking tropical maize A, rebranding it, and selling it on – there is a huge amount of effort that goes in to breeding various traits between different lines and achieving better varieties of a crop which are suited to a particular environment and outperform whatever is currently utilized in that environment – it seems to me that to profit from this work is perfectly fair (particularly when a portion of the profit from that work goes towards developing even better genetics to utilize down the line)

      Reply
  14. Our United Methodist Women are studying poverty and in the book we are using there is a section on Monsanto. I went online to read the other side because their take was very disparaging on your donation to Haiti. Stating that your intent was to make the farmers have to then by seeds from you. I read all the blogs and got more confused. As of 2013 did they burn the seeds? If they used them was it successful and have they been able to reseed without buying your products?

    Reply
    • Actually, despite all the claims, no Monsanto seed was burned. The seed was planted, and the crops were grown and harvested by the farmers. The seed donated was hybrid, not GM.

      Reply
      • Really? Because there are pictures of the Haitian march against Monsanto, and I doubt their prime minister would lie about what happened. He would have no reason. There are also pictures piles of seeds catching on fire. Care to comment?

        Reply

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